The Talmud on Separating Dairy and Meat

Abaye said: Even the taste [imparted by a forbidden substance] without the [forbidden] substance itself is forbidden on a biblical level. For if it should occur to you that [taste is only forbidden] on a rabbinic level, then why could we not derive that [taste is forbidden on a biblical level] from [the case] of [mixtures of] meat and milk [where neither substance is forbidden on its own, but they become forbidden through the transfer of taste]? [The reason that we cannot derive that taste is forbidden on a biblical level from the case of mixtures of meat and milk is that the prohibition on a mixture of meat and milk is] a novel case [and therefore cannot be used as precedent for other forbidden substances]. But if [the case of a mixture of meat and milk] is truly a novelty, then [a mixture of meat and milk] should be forbidden even if there is no transfer of taste [i.e., even if a negligible amount of milk mixed with meat and one cannot taste the milk when eating the meat, the resulting mixture should still be forbidden, since the general principles of minimum amounts would not apply to a novel case].

Rava said to [Abaye]: The Torah [only] prohibited cooking [milk and meat together, and this is the novel aspect of this prohibition—not the mixing of meat and milk]. Rav said: Once [milk] transmits taste to a piece of meat, the piece of meat itself becomes carrion and makes all of the other pieces of meat [it is mixed with] forbidden because it is of a similar substance [i.e., it is indistinguishable from other pieces of meat]. Mar Zutra, the son of R. Mari, said to Ravina: Now, according to whose view did Rav state his teaching? [If you were to say that his teaching is] in accordance with [the view] of R. Judah, who said that a substance mixed with similar substances cannot be nullified, then should we say that [Rav] disagrees with Rava[’s understanding of R. Judah’s position]? For Rava said that according to R. Judah, whenever there is [a mixture] of a [forbidden] substance with similar substances and something else, remove the similar substances, and [if the] [quantity of the] third item is [significantly] more than the [original forbidden substance], it nullifies [the forbidden substance; this implies that Rav’s view does not align with all understandings of R. Judah’s view]. He [Ravina] said to him [Mar Zutra]: If [the milk] fell in the liquid broth then this would be so, but what case are we dealing with here? [The case when the milk] fell into a thick broth, [and so there is no significant distinction between the similar substances and anything else in the pot].

And what does [Rav] believe [concerning a piece of meat on which milk fell]? If he believes that it is possible to squeeze out [the milk and make the meat] permitted, then why [does he say that] the piece of meat becomes carrion [i.e., forbidden]? Rather, he must believe that [even if it is possible] to squeeze out [the milk, the meat remains] forbidden. [This interpretation of Rav’s view confirms] that which was stated: Rav, R. Ḥanina, and R. Yoḥanan say that [if it is] possible to squeeze out [the milk, the meat remains] forbidden; Samuel, R. Simeon the son of Rabbi, and Resh Lakish say that [if it is] possible to squeeze out [the milk, the meat becomes] permitted.

But does Rav [really] believe that [if it is] possible to squeeze out [the milk, the meat remains] forbidden? Is it not stated [that in the case when] an olive-sized piece of meat fell into a vat of milk, Rav said that the meat is forbidden and the milk is permitted? And if it were to occur to you that [Rav believes that if it is] possible to squeeze out [the milk, the meat remains] forbidden, then why would the milk be permitted? It is milk [infused with the taste of] carrion!

Actually, Rav believes that [if it is] possible to squeeze out [the milk, the meat remains] forbidden, but this case is different because the biblical verse says: Do not boil a kid in its mother’s milk (Exodus 23:19; 34:26; Deuteronomy14:21)—the Torah forbids [the meat] of the kid and not the milk. [ . . . ] But ultimately, when [the stew] ceases [cooking, the meat will] discharge [the milk that it absorbed into the stew, and the milk should be forbidden! Rather, when Rav permits the milk, he refers to a case when a person] speedily removed [the piece of meat before the stew finished cooking].